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	<title>Comments on: The Emerging Church Controversy</title>
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	<description>Exploring the intersection of faith and culture</description>
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		<title>By: Paul Carr</title>
		<link>http://kentdelhousaye.com/2009/07/16/the-emerging-church-controversy/#comment-174</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Carr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jun 2011 17:46:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kentdelhousaye.com/?p=305#comment-174</guid>
		<description>My girlfreind dismissed me while in the middle of the R12 course at my church specifically for specically what she read on page 36.  This does not seem Christian like, or what Jesus would say.   This part and other parts of the book seem contrived and are used as a way to divide and conquer the student.  Are all these stories in the book true, or did Ingram make some of them up to make his point?  Did he really dismiss his girlfriend that he loved or that was just a convieninet example of the sacrafice that many will have to make if they follow his book?  I doubt that he did that if he really loved her.  Also - the great rewards that he promises for following his book and becoming an R12 Christian-will that include a higher pew in heaven?  The rewards that he promises seem false, and don&#039;t match what 

I had the distict feeling that there was deceit in the words and that Ingram used phycological technics to trick.  Having the reader repeat &quot;Trust Me&quot; over and over again.  He actually says that he asked God a question and God answered.  That is talking to God and I do not believe him because there was no fear of being in God&#039;s presence when he answered.  I think this is very dangreous stuff and it cost me my relationship.  I don&#039;t think my giorlfreind is following what God wants for here life, I think she is following what Chip Ingram thinks she needs for her life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My girlfreind dismissed me while in the middle of the R12 course at my church specifically for specically what she read on page 36.  This does not seem Christian like, or what Jesus would say.   This part and other parts of the book seem contrived and are used as a way to divide and conquer the student.  Are all these stories in the book true, or did Ingram make some of them up to make his point?  Did he really dismiss his girlfriend that he loved or that was just a convieninet example of the sacrafice that many will have to make if they follow his book?  I doubt that he did that if he really loved her.  Also &#8211; the great rewards that he promises for following his book and becoming an R12 Christian-will that include a higher pew in heaven?  The rewards that he promises seem false, and don&#8217;t match what </p>
<p>I had the distict feeling that there was deceit in the words and that Ingram used phycological technics to trick.  Having the reader repeat &#8220;Trust Me&#8221; over and over again.  He actually says that he asked God a question and God answered.  That is talking to God and I do not believe him because there was no fear of being in God&#8217;s presence when he answered.  I think this is very dangreous stuff and it cost me my relationship.  I don&#8217;t think my giorlfreind is following what God wants for here life, I think she is following what Chip Ingram thinks she needs for her life.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://kentdelhousaye.com/2009/07/16/the-emerging-church-controversy/#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Apr 2010 12:28:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kentdelhousaye.com/?p=305#comment-173</guid>
		<description>I noticed much in this article to discuss, but I will point out what I consider to be the fundamental and fatal flaw that serves as the foundation for much of the philosophy proposed here.

1. There is no such thing a neutrality in style, or in anything else as far as that goes. Everything is to be submitted to biblical scrutiny and this includes worship styles.

2. There is absolutely no such thing as harmless, neutral philosophy. To crticize people who critcize philosophical departures in ministry without examining he components is an act reckless generalization.

3. To assert that people criticize the components of the emergent church out of fear that they are related or assocatiated with the movement rather than out of a genuine concern that this components themselves are not biblical is both hypocritical and unfair. Hypocritical in that you do not know the motives of their heart and unfair in that you are painting everyone with the same broad brush.

I am in the process of writing a dissertation in the field of hermeneutics. My paper is titled, &quot;The Evolution of Jesus: Hermeneutic Foundations of the Emergent Community.&quot; And even though this movement is beginning to die, the components that led to its rise in the first place will continue to linger and will continue to require direct address long after Brian McLaren and his colleagues have ended their dialogue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I noticed much in this article to discuss, but I will point out what I consider to be the fundamental and fatal flaw that serves as the foundation for much of the philosophy proposed here.</p>
<p>1. There is no such thing a neutrality in style, or in anything else as far as that goes. Everything is to be submitted to biblical scrutiny and this includes worship styles.</p>
<p>2. There is absolutely no such thing as harmless, neutral philosophy. To crticize people who critcize philosophical departures in ministry without examining he components is an act reckless generalization.</p>
<p>3. To assert that people criticize the components of the emergent church out of fear that they are related or assocatiated with the movement rather than out of a genuine concern that this components themselves are not biblical is both hypocritical and unfair. Hypocritical in that you do not know the motives of their heart and unfair in that you are painting everyone with the same broad brush.</p>
<p>I am in the process of writing a dissertation in the field of hermeneutics. My paper is titled, &#8220;The Evolution of Jesus: Hermeneutic Foundations of the Emergent Community.&#8221; And even though this movement is beginning to die, the components that led to its rise in the first place will continue to linger and will continue to require direct address long after Brian McLaren and his colleagues have ended their dialogue.</p>
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		<title>By: Kent DelHousaye</title>
		<link>http://kentdelhousaye.com/2009/07/16/the-emerging-church-controversy/#comment-172</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent DelHousaye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kentdelhousaye.com/?p=305#comment-172</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Johnna. I think I liked reading your comment as much as you liked reading my post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Johnna. I think I liked reading your comment as much as you liked reading my post.</p>
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		<title>By: Johnna</title>
		<link>http://kentdelhousaye.com/2009/07/16/the-emerging-church-controversy/#comment-171</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 04:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kentdelhousaye.com/?p=305#comment-171</guid>
		<description>hey kent! I love what you had to say and completely identify with it! I have currently been really looking into this topic. It is so encouraging to have a pastor that is so on fire for Christ. The church as a whole needs to realize that there is no time to be comfortable. Jesus was controversial, Jesus hung out with the least of these, Jesus made it so that God didn&#039;t just talk to the world but WITH the world. I have been running into so many young christians that are so weighed down by petty doctrinal issues that they are causing dis-unity in the church as a result. Now is a time to unify, with a common goal, to stand up and say OUR GOD DIED FOR THE SINNER. It&#039;s time to put aside the things that are not salvation issues and start following Christ&#039;s example, we don&#039;t have time to sit here and argue about whether or not having guitars turned up a little louder, or the fact the kid in the back has blue hair is a sin. Jesus will be back for His followers in the blink of an eye and I personally do not want to leave this earth feeling like I lived a comfortable, boring, stereotypical Christian life. I want to leave knowing that I fully, and completely gave my life to Christ, and if relationally I need to learn more about art to connect with non-believers or even study their religion I believe that God would not only be pleased by that, but encourage it. I am secure in the fact that listening to loud worship music is not going to send me to hell or put me on some invisible black list that it seems many Christians believe God keeps. It is my constant prayer that the Church as a whole can say ENOUGH to all of the rubbish that we seem to be stirring up and start living strictly by God&#039;s word and Christ&#039;s example. Imagine the impact... welp you officially inspired me to go write on my blog so I will stop ranting on yours haha! thanks again for being straight forward!
-Johnna</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey kent! I love what you had to say and completely identify with it! I have currently been really looking into this topic. It is so encouraging to have a pastor that is so on fire for Christ. The church as a whole needs to realize that there is no time to be comfortable. Jesus was controversial, Jesus hung out with the least of these, Jesus made it so that God didn&#8217;t just talk to the world but WITH the world. I have been running into so many young christians that are so weighed down by petty doctrinal issues that they are causing dis-unity in the church as a result. Now is a time to unify, with a common goal, to stand up and say OUR GOD DIED FOR THE SINNER. It&#8217;s time to put aside the things that are not salvation issues and start following Christ&#8217;s example, we don&#8217;t have time to sit here and argue about whether or not having guitars turned up a little louder, or the fact the kid in the back has blue hair is a sin. Jesus will be back for His followers in the blink of an eye and I personally do not want to leave this earth feeling like I lived a comfortable, boring, stereotypical Christian life. I want to leave knowing that I fully, and completely gave my life to Christ, and if relationally I need to learn more about art to connect with non-believers or even study their religion I believe that God would not only be pleased by that, but encourage it. I am secure in the fact that listening to loud worship music is not going to send me to hell or put me on some invisible black list that it seems many Christians believe God keeps. It is my constant prayer that the Church as a whole can say ENOUGH to all of the rubbish that we seem to be stirring up and start living strictly by God&#8217;s word and Christ&#8217;s example. Imagine the impact&#8230; welp you officially inspired me to go write on my blog so I will stop ranting on yours haha! thanks again for being straight forward!<br />
-Johnna</p>
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		<title>By: Kent DelHousaye</title>
		<link>http://kentdelhousaye.com/2009/07/16/the-emerging-church-controversy/#comment-170</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent DelHousaye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kentdelhousaye.com/?p=305#comment-170</guid>
		<description>Bob, thanks for the comment. I hear where you are coming from but you also have to understand that as a pastor I don&#039;t have the luxury of not taking a position on theological/biblical matters. I believe that wedges are unavoidable when it comes to orthodoxy and truth, but my primary point in the post is that they are not when it comes to philosophy and practice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob, thanks for the comment. I hear where you are coming from but you also have to understand that as a pastor I don&#8217;t have the luxury of not taking a position on theological/biblical matters. I believe that wedges are unavoidable when it comes to orthodoxy and truth, but my primary point in the post is that they are not when it comes to philosophy and practice.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Pearson</title>
		<link>http://kentdelhousaye.com/2009/07/16/the-emerging-church-controversy/#comment-169</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Pearson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kentdelhousaye.com/?p=305#comment-169</guid>
		<description>Kent,
I think the underlying assumption that there is one and only one way to understand Christian Orthodoxy and &quot;Truth&quot; is the major difference between you and many in the emerging community.  Drawing lines on who is ok and who is not is not very Christ like is it?

I like to think about Christian faith and belief as more of a bell shaped curve with highly conservative and highly liberal doctrines anchoring the opposite ends of the curve, and also being in a minority of all who claim Jesus as Lord.  Most Christians in the pews fall somewhere in the middle. 
Trying to draw a vertical line or two and say that anything outside the lines or to the left of the line is just un-Christian make little sense to me. It is great that you believe it, but I may have had a slightly different revelation than you and may not believe 100% the same way you do.
Emerging folks are exploring the whole range of the curve as well as exploring new ways to express this faith in service to the community, in building the Kingdom of God on Earth and in worshiping God in Christ.
Trying to continue to drive wedges between the conservative evangelicals, the liberal emergents, and the liberal conservatives is just not Christ-like in my book.  How about a little love for the people toiling in the fields with those who do not hear the message the way you are saying and living it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kent,<br />
I think the underlying assumption that there is one and only one way to understand Christian Orthodoxy and &#8220;Truth&#8221; is the major difference between you and many in the emerging community.  Drawing lines on who is ok and who is not is not very Christ like is it?</p>
<p>I like to think about Christian faith and belief as more of a bell shaped curve with highly conservative and highly liberal doctrines anchoring the opposite ends of the curve, and also being in a minority of all who claim Jesus as Lord.  Most Christians in the pews fall somewhere in the middle.<br />
Trying to draw a vertical line or two and say that anything outside the lines or to the left of the line is just un-Christian make little sense to me. It is great that you believe it, but I may have had a slightly different revelation than you and may not believe 100% the same way you do.<br />
Emerging folks are exploring the whole range of the curve as well as exploring new ways to express this faith in service to the community, in building the Kingdom of God on Earth and in worshiping God in Christ.<br />
Trying to continue to drive wedges between the conservative evangelicals, the liberal emergents, and the liberal conservatives is just not Christ-like in my book.  How about a little love for the people toiling in the fields with those who do not hear the message the way you are saying and living it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kent DelHousaye</title>
		<link>http://kentdelhousaye.com/2009/07/16/the-emerging-church-controversy/#comment-168</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent DelHousaye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 17:14:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kentdelhousaye.com/?p=305#comment-168</guid>
		<description>David, thanks for the comment and the fair question. The last paragraph of my post was intended to clarify which side of the split I landed on. It is my view that for many of us who have been engaged in this debate, the conversation is and has always been about rethinking the context of the gospel, not the content.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, thanks for the comment and the fair question. The last paragraph of my post was intended to clarify which side of the split I landed on. It is my view that for many of us who have been engaged in this debate, the conversation is and has always been about rethinking the context of the gospel, not the content.</p>
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		<title>By: david</title>
		<link>http://kentdelhousaye.com/2009/07/16/the-emerging-church-controversy/#comment-167</link>
		<dc:creator>david</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kentdelhousaye.com/?p=305#comment-167</guid>
		<description>i appreciate this. but your final paragraph somewhat undermines your argument i think. how does it strengthen your point to finish by distancing yourself from other christians? are you not doing a bit of discernment policing yourself with this generalization and somewhat ambiguous suggestion of a &#039;slippery slope&#039;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i appreciate this. but your final paragraph somewhat undermines your argument i think. how does it strengthen your point to finish by distancing yourself from other christians? are you not doing a bit of discernment policing yourself with this generalization and somewhat ambiguous suggestion of a &#8216;slippery slope&#8217;?</p>
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		<title>By: Kent DelHousaye</title>
		<link>http://kentdelhousaye.com/2009/07/16/the-emerging-church-controversy/#comment-166</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent DelHousaye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 21:37:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kentdelhousaye.com/?p=305#comment-166</guid>
		<description>Camille, with that statement I meant simply to address two related but not identical concerns. An affiliation with Emergent Village has often been associated with a perceived &quot;slippery slope&quot; toward liberalism but that connection is not necessarily automatic. What I am saying is that I am not personally associated with Emergent Village in order to clear up any possible misconceptions about my own affiliations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Camille, with that statement I meant simply to address two related but not identical concerns. An affiliation with Emergent Village has often been associated with a perceived &#8220;slippery slope&#8221; toward liberalism but that connection is not necessarily automatic. What I am saying is that I am not personally associated with Emergent Village in order to clear up any possible misconceptions about my own affiliations.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Bellars</title>
		<link>http://kentdelhousaye.com/2009/07/16/the-emerging-church-controversy/#comment-165</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Bellars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:59:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://kentdelhousaye.com/?p=305#comment-165</guid>
		<description>Praise God for addressing this! I appreciate your first hand insight and your differentiation between the &quot;conservative stream committed to biblical and theological truth and the ... liberal stream of the movement seemingly bent toward pluralism and existentialism.&quot; 

Previously I only had the option of getting my information from books by those who say they are Emergent (McLaren, Bell, etc) and those who say they aren&#039;t (but should be [because they fit the demographic] - DeYoung, Kluck, etc). It generally seems that the adherents to the Emergent Village &quot;conversation&quot; are too nebulous (perhaps &quot;double-minded&quot;) about where they stand on certain controversial and even essential topics that the rest of us are left scratching our heads about what&#039;s happening in the &quot;church&quot; and wondering which stylishly hip sheep are genuinely bleating in agreement with the Shepherd and which ones are surreptitiously howling at the moon and/or constructing their own spiritual &quot;reality&quot; with an emergent label. I&#039;ll be praying for wisdom ala Jas 1:5-8. Thanks for the well-crafted stimulus! Grace &amp; peace!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Praise God for addressing this! I appreciate your first hand insight and your differentiation between the &#8220;conservative stream committed to biblical and theological truth and the &#8230; liberal stream of the movement seemingly bent toward pluralism and existentialism.&#8221; </p>
<p>Previously I only had the option of getting my information from books by those who say they are Emergent (McLaren, Bell, etc) and those who say they aren&#8217;t (but should be [because they fit the demographic] &#8211; DeYoung, Kluck, etc). It generally seems that the adherents to the Emergent Village &#8220;conversation&#8221; are too nebulous (perhaps &#8220;double-minded&#8221;) about where they stand on certain controversial and even essential topics that the rest of us are left scratching our heads about what&#8217;s happening in the &#8220;church&#8221; and wondering which stylishly hip sheep are genuinely bleating in agreement with the Shepherd and which ones are surreptitiously howling at the moon and/or constructing their own spiritual &#8220;reality&#8221; with an emergent label. I&#8217;ll be praying for wisdom ala Jas 1:5-8. Thanks for the well-crafted stimulus! Grace &amp; peace!</p>
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